Widescreen Gaming Forum

I couldn't tell you, Tom. I'm running an nVidia 9800GT 1GB card in windowed mode, and my 2d main panel screens were the primary ones causing me problems. I agree that it's a stretching issue, but I can only speculate on why this fix has worked for me.

I'm running 4320x900x32 (@60Hz) (3 @ 1440x900), but being windowed, it's obviously a bit smaller than that with the title bar. Since I also believe that it is a stretching issue, I'll try to elaborate on my thinking as to why this seems to work (at least for two of us so far lol).

I think what's happening is that most aircraft don't have a corresponding window_size= value for them in their panel.cfg. Without a value, it probably defaults to 1.000, 1.000. What I believe the issue is, is that these values don't represent size in relation to the panel they're trying to display, but instead represent the game's entire screen resolution. The reason I believe this 'fix' has worked for me is just simple math, actually. Since the first value of the window_size is equal to game screen width, and the second value is equal to game screen height, then I figured the first value is the only one that needs to be changed (since with TH2G, only my screen width has increased, not the height). Since 1/3 of a three screen setup would equal a value of 0.333, that's the value I decided to use. This has allowed the main panel to open up at the same width as it would have if I were running a single monitor.

Anyhow, that's why I think it works. I don't know if it will work for everyone (though if my logic is correct, then I don't see why it wouldn't), but in the end, as long as it works for some folks, then it was information worth sharing. :)

Good luck, and I'm glad to hear that you've found a workaround for your situation. :)

-George

DB93, you god, thanks for the breakthrough.

The solution works for me. Building on DB93's work I can get, across 3 widescreens, the following working fine:
* The main panel centred on the middle screen.
* Utility panels (Radio Stack, throttle, etc.) sized and positioned where I want them. Unlike DB93 these where not fine for me by default but required manual attention.
* The 3D window (I'm referring to the view of the scenery when using 2D panels, not Virtual Cockpit view) fully stretched by default (Initially I too had the 3D window reduced to almost half the screen when opening the main panel).
* The crazy/hourglass cursor and 7-8 fps penalty is gone. At least so long as I do not open up a panel that hasn't yet had a fix applied to it. If I press a panel button, and the panel doesn't appear anywhere, then this shows the fix has not been properly applied.
* The above in either Full Screen or Windowed Mode.

I have:
* FSX with the Acceleration Expansion Pack. So I have, therefore, Flight Simulator X Service Pack 2. FSX version 10.0.6137.0 (FSX-XPack. 20070926_1421)
* XP pro 32 bit. SP 3.
* Nvidia 182.50 drivers for my NVIDIA GTX 260.
* TH2GD Firmware: 2.3.30t6.56; Matrox Powerdesk 2.05.
* Resolution of 5040 x 1050 @ 57Hz

Here is the thing's I've learnt, recapping and building upon DB93s breakthrough, using the default Boeing 737-800:


For detailed information about panel.cfg

See the Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK (Software Development Kit):
1. C:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesMicrosoft Flight Simulator X SDKSDKfsxsdk.chm
2. SimObject Creation Kit > Panels and Gauges SDK > Panel Configuration Files.


Correct the main panel

This remains the main fix that solves the major issue. I was really suprised that this solved the crazy/hourglass cursor issue instantly. That makes both 2D view *and* virtual cockpit view usable. To repeat DB93s tip ...

* In your panel.cfg

# Under [window00], which is usually the main panel, change the change the x value of window_size to 0.333. Eg:

to:


If "window_size=" doesn't exist add it. Either way you want something like "window-size=0.333, 1.000" where the first value is having the effect of reducing the width of the main panel by a third.

# Comment out the following line, if it exists. If it doesn't exist, you don't have to commment it out. Comment out:

by changing it to:



To ensure your panel.cfg edits take effect

Edit: Changes to this section: Reorder steps; additional instructions for the sake of being explicit.

1. Turn off AI traffic.

So to ensure your aircraft is reloaded from disk, you must also go to the Settings Screen, choose Traffic, and set the Air Traffic Density slider all the way to the left to 0%.

2. Also delete any default flight you may have saved.

Go to My DocumentsFlight Simulator X Files and delete the revelant *.FLT, *.FSSAVE, and *.WX files. I deleted all my saved flights to be sure. These files hold panel position, and other states of affairs, that may override some of the changes you make to panel.cfg. Later on you can use this fact to your advantage.

3. Reboot flight sim.

Thereafter reloading the aircraft will pick up changes from panel.cfg.

4. You must reload the aircraft every time you wish edits from panel.cfg to take effect. To reload the aircraft from within FS, when I'm flying, in either windowed or fullscreen mode:
A. Hit alt to get the menu.
B. Aircraft > Select Aircraft
C. Click OK if reloading the same aircraft.


Dealing with the main 3D window (the scene you see beyond your main 2D panel, not the Virtual Cockpit)

You have two choices here. Firstly, accept the default behaviour of having the 3D window squish to about half the screen when you open the (fixed) main panel. You will be left with a black band in the lower half of the screen, beneath your main (and utility) panels. The advantage of this view is that this was as the MS team designed it. So, for example, when landing you don't have to peer over the nose too much.

Your second choice is to resize the main 3D window fully. This utilizes all of your 3 screens but has two disadvantages: a peformance hit (not significant for me); and the horizon is now below the top of the main panel dashboard. To overcome this second disadvantage we can either: edit the panel.cfg; or manually resize the window from within Flight Sim (DB93, yeah I confirmed this was possible).

Either way ....
- During flight you might like to use
-------------------------------------------
# Ctrl + Q and Ctrl + Shift + Q to make ad hoc eye point rotations (eg on landing).
# Ctrl + Space to reset eye point adjustments.

- To resize the main 3D window (the scene you see beyond your 2D panel) to the fill the screen via editing
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In your panel.cfg under [Default View] Change

to


- or -

Under [Window00] add


To compensate for the horizon dipping bellow the main panel dashboard top we can rotate your eye point downwards, that is we pitch it "down" ...

Under [VIEWS] change

To


- To resize the main 3D window (the scene you see beyond your 2D panel) to the fill the screen manually
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From within FS I just drag the edge of the window down. It might be easier to do this in windowed mode so that you can undock the main 3D window. To save this change see "The save flight method" below.


To resize the utility panels, eg Radio Stack, Throttle, etc

Use either ...

The save flight method:
--------------------------------
A. Resize all of these panels within flight simulator until you are happy. Save this is as a flight. Give it a good name like "B738 Triple Head Configuration".
B. Optionally make this the default flight.
C. When ever you want to use this configuration at any location you:
C1. Load this flight "B738 Triple Head Configuration" (or the other Triple head configuration flights you have saved for each aircraft), only then ...
C2. Select a new airport.

The panel.cfg method:
---------------------------
A. In your aircraft's panel.cfg, under your utility panel eg [Window01] comment out:

To


Adjust the values of window_size and window_pos. For example for my throttle panel on the B738, [Window03], I have:


Where these values represent the percentages of screen. x starts on the left and goes to the right for positive values, just like the convention you learnt at school. Counter to the convention you learnt at school, y starts at the top and goes *down* for positive values.

For triple head screens we have three times the width of the screen for which FS is designed. We have the same height. Therefore we generally want to be dividing x or width values by 3. Same handy decimal equivalents are therefore:
1/3 -> 0.333
1/9 -> 0.111
1/27 -> 0.037

For example I resize my radio stack to:

Hi John,

Glad the info helped you work out your issue, and am happy to see you expand upon it so much, so that folks can get their panel windows positioned right where they want them.

It's not that my secondary panel windows are 'fine' where I open them, I've just gotten used to opening, moving, and resizing them as part of my pre-flight procedures. :P

Anyhow, the additional information you've provided is great, and I wondered if you would mind sharing it on a couple of other forums. I posted my original 'fix' from here to avsim's forums (in the "MS FSX ForumMS Flight Simulator Tips and Tricks" forum) and to the sim-outhouse forums (in the "FSX General DiscussionFSX Guides" forum). I'd really appreciate it if you would reply to my posts in those forums with the additional information you've provided so we can try to help as many folks as possible who have the panel issues with TH2G and FSX. :)

I would post links, but am not sure of the policy here on WSGF about posting links to external sites, so I decided to err on the side of caution. :P

Thanks again for the additional information. :)

-George

George,

I'd be most happy for any of the information in my posts to be spread far and wide.

I've already posted to alt.games.microsft.flight-sim under "TripleHead2Go and 2D Cockpitview".

Perhaps you could post this information in the forums you mentioned. You'd be welcome to copy and paste but I'd recommend you post a direct link to my post: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/node/11008#comment-190504 , in order to promote a centralised solution repository for this problem.

It would be wrong of a web forum to forbid external links (At least of a relevant nature, prohibitions on spam, for example, I'd be Ok with). Linking to external sites is what building a web entails. The web: that technology that helps make our speech freer.

By the way, does the solution originate from you?

Edit: Removed the comma "," at end of the link that ruined it.

George and John,
Thanks for the great instructions. Before I try this out on my system, are you disabling FullScreen in FSX before doing the pane.cfg changes or are the panels resized with FullScreen still active? Also, is undocking the subpanels/utility panels and resizing/moving them around the same as making the changes in their respective config files?

In addition to disabling AI traffic, must I delete all my saved flights such as the ones I made for the panel configurations I made above with the windowed/undocked panels? Thanks again for the great work. :D
Tom

John,

Thanks for your permission to link back to your post. You've gone much more in-depth with this than I have, as my primary concern was just trying to fix the panels that caused the performance hit while not displaying, and while also causing the 'wait' cursor to be displayed.

Yes, the window_size= fix is one I figured out on my own, earlier this year, after purchasing my TH2G and having the above-mentioned performance and display issues. I played with a few of the values available in a few different aircraft's panel.cfg files that seemed related to size, but I wasn't getting anywhere. Then I found a new value in one of the glass cockpit aircraft (think it was the Mooney) that I hadn't seen in any of the other aircraft that I had tried to fix. That value, obviously, was window_size. After playing with the values for a little bit, I figured out that the window_size values were a scale based on size of the game-window, and not the panel window. After that, it was just a matter of telling it to scale to 1/3 the width (0.333). I loaded it up, and sure enough, the panel was there, and the 'wait' cursor and performance degredation weren't. Once I saw that had worked, I tried it on a couple of aircraft that didn't have the window_size line in their panel.cfg files, and it worked on them too.

I wrote up my 'fix' in notepad, but originally just for my own reference if I ever need to reinstall FSX in the future. When I saw this thread yesterday, I figured I would post what I had done to fix my issue, in the hopes it would help at least a few of the folks in this thread that sounded like they were having the same issue I was.

Happily, it not only appears to be working for those who have tried it, but you have gone above and beyond by going into much more detail for getting panel windows positioned and sized, and getting everything 'just right' for everyone. :)


Tom,

I'm running windowed mode, so haven't tried it fullscreen. My resolution is 4320x900@60Hz. None of my windows are undocked, nor did I have to undock any of them to fix it. Since the value that 'fxes' the issue seems to be based on a scale system that uses the game's resolution, I'd guess it should work in full screen, but I haven't tried it myself. I'd suggest backing up the panel.cfg file from one of your aircraft, then make the modifications and try firing it up in FSX and see if everything works correctly. Then, if you have any issues, you can just delete the modified panel.cfg file, and replace it with the original one that you backed up.

The only place I'd expect to see any kind of a possible issue, would be switching to a single monitor resolution, as I'm sure that would cause the panel to squeeze from the side (thought I don't know if that would or wouldn't cause the flashing, spinning cursor in single-monitor resolutions). :)

As for the disabling AI traffic, and deleting saved flights... well for that, I'll yield to John, as that's additional configuration information that I'm sure he could help you with much better than I, since I haven't even gotten around to trying his additional configuration information yet.

:)

-George

Tom,

... are you disabling FullScreen in FSX before doing the pane.cfg changes or are the panels resized with FullScreen still active?

So long as the panel appears somewhere:
* I can manually resize all of my panels in windowed mode.
* I can manually resize most of my panels in full screen mode.

The panels I can't (or at least have some difficulty) manually resize in full screen mode are those that are not quite rectangular, so that there is some kind of transparency effect and it is impossible (or difficult) to get a double arrow when you move your cursor of the edge of the panel. In these cases I simply switch, temporarily, to windowed mode and undock the window. That gives me a clear rectangular shape to resize.

Edits in panel.cfg show up in either windowed mode or full screen mode. It doesn't matter when I make a panel.cfg change. I could make it while FS is in Windowed or Fullscreen mode. What matters is what I have to do to make the changes take effect.

In addition to the other considerations (AI and saved flights) I have to reload the aircraft. From within FS, when I'm flying, in either windowed or fullscreen mode I:
1. Hit alt to get the menu.
2. Aircraft > Select Aircraft
3. Click OK if I'm reloading the same aircraft.

I'd suggest making a series of exaggerated panel.cfg changes to test that the effects are taking hold. For example for your B737_800 panel.cfg under [Window01] , the RADIO_STACK_PANEL:
* Add "window_size= 0.5,0.5", reload, and confirm that the Radio stack fills half the triple screen in width and height; then
* Change this to "window_size= 0.037,0.5", reload, and confirm that the Radio stack in now only about 1/27th of the triple screen.

Although windowed V fullscreen mode does not matter in terms of panel.cfg changes flowing through I prefer to test things in windowed mode. That way I can size the window to fit one of my monitors and make text edits to panel.cfg on the others. I can then quickly resize the FS window across 3 screens to be sure of the effect I am after.

In addition to disabling AI traffic, must I delete all my saved flights such as the ones I made for the panel configurations I made above with the windowed/undocked panels?

I'm no longer sure that disabling the AI is necessary in practice. It seems not to matter for me despite what the SDK says. A safe precaution though.

I would recommend you delete all the saved flights involving the aircraft for which you wish to make panel.cfg changes. If you open up the saved flight files you will observe that there is panel/window position stored. This will override your default panel.cfg settings. As I wrote previously (I'm more than happy to repeat it in different terms to help clarify things) you can exploit this so that you have two options for configuring and saving your utility panels ....

is undocking the subpanels/utility panels and resizing/moving them around the same as making the changes in their respective config files?

* "The save flight method" This is easiest but the change does not flow through to all variations of an aircraft model; or
* "The panel.cfg method". This involves much more mental calculation and trial and error but your panels' position will be stored for all variations of an aircraft model.

No matter which method you choose for Utility panels (Radio stack, gps, etc) you should always edit the panel.cfg to apply the George fix for the main panel.

In a previous post you mentioned that you are using an ATI card. I only know what you already know here: ATI cards seem problematic with Triple Head. I know this only from reading Widescreen gaming forum, not from first hand experience. I hope this is not your problem. Let us know how you go. If you still have problems we might be able to set up a series of specific experimental steps for you to try.

George,

I suspect you are the first in the world to solve this problem. Bravo!

For example a long time regular at alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim, Quilly, writes:

this worked for me, and is the info I have been hoping for
ever since FSX came out!!

In places Panel.cfg editing is frightening. For example there are two variables, listed under the MS FSX SDK "Panel Configuration Files":
* "windowsize_ratio"; and
* "window_size_ratio"

Under "Creating XML Gauges" we have

The size_mm field is a misnomer, it does not represent millimeters, but arbitrary design units.

Not enough refactoring done there.

Research tasks left for me (or whoever wants to):
* For the 3D window (beyond the 2D Panel, not the Virtual cockpit) which is better: default black band; or resized to full screen, with nose rotation?
* Might there be some other simpler system wide configuration setting? That is, changes to a single file that apply for all aircraft running under TH2GO?

Thanks guys. I read your instructions over and will experiment. John, you kind of lost me with that last post and the 3D panel not the VC. I guess if I backup the files first I won't screw things up too much. I'm not that experienced nor do I have the know-how, but I'll play around and hope for the best. After all, the reward of having FSX working with these 3 monitors will be enough of a reward. :D I'll keep you posted. Wish me luck. Here goes! :lol: Thanks again. Tom

Well guys, I'm off to a great start. :oops: I can't seem to find any Panel.cfg files let alone an Aircraft file. Things aren't the same as they were in FS9 apparantly. I ran a search but get "no files match your search". Where are these panle.cfg files?? Thanks. Tom