Widescreen Gaming Forum

The DoubleSight DS-265W has very accurate colors out of the box, but then that's partly due to it being an S-IPS.

I also don't like that the 27" displays at 1920x1200 res have a fairly large pixel pitch of .3029. IMO they're a bit too small for distant viewing and a bit too large for desktop. The 26" displays have an actual viewing size of 25.5", making them only .2861 in pixel pitch.

The DS is much more expensive (i buy the 2709W for 590 euro) and about your second point i agree but then your looking with a very critical eye and isn't there something to say about almost every monitor.

I played call of duty on a professional level and as you mentioned ofcourse i see something when i play but the 2709W is a bigger better and improved version comparing to the 2407WFP i have now.
The input lagg is almost not important for FPS games, rather then for racegames.

So please be my guest to reply on my opinion. :)

On the other hand may i ask you another question, Do you think the 2709W is a bad choice ? ?

I think you will get is the wider gamut and the larger lag (since I assume you are sensitive to lag). Dell have a satisfaction warranty, so you can always back out if you aren't happy and if you are, then all is well.

Interesting points, can you explane me what you mean with "the wider gamut"?

About the lag, the input lag of the 2709W is teh same as i have with the 2407WFP and as i mentioned in my post above this one it almost doesn't matter for FPS games.

I also like to know from you when you know that i have to pay 590 euro, is this a bad choice ? :)

[quote]

I think you will get is the wider gamut and the larger lag (since I assume you are sensitive to lag). Dell have a satisfaction warranty, so you can always back out if you aren't happy and if you are, then all is well.

Interesting points, can you explane me what you mean with "the wider gamut"?

About the lag, the input lag of the 2709W is teh same as i have with the 2407WFP and as i mentioned in my post above this one it almost doesn't matter for FPS games.

I also like to know from you when you know that i have to pay 590 euro, is this a bad choice ? :)

Its hard to explain gamut without getting technical. Since you don't have any preknowledge of it, it will take some time. I think we should wait until you have received the monitor, since its easier to explain then. You will notice a difference in colors being more saturated. The 2407WFP is close to sRGB gamut and the 2709 close to aRGB gamut. Look up those terms if you wish to read up on it first.

The input lag is unfortunately higher on the 2709 then on the 2407. There is a large thread on it at [H] if you wish to read up on it:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1325872&highlight=2709

I don't think you made a bad choice getting that screen so cheap. Input lag do make a difference in FPS games on professional level. You will have to compensate for the delay. Read the review you presenteded from Prad.de again and imagine the car in the example being a head instead.

I've learned that "if you made a good choice or not" depends on what you think as the end user, not what I or other think. The screen was inexpensive compared to what you get and if you feel it suits your needs when you get it and tried it, then you did make a good choice! :D

He said he got the revision A01 model. Assuming that revision did what people were hoping it would, input lag shouldn't be a problem. As to if I think you made a bad choice, it wouldn't have been mine, but mostly due to the fact that I am planning a build based on one display that does everything, including movies. For you it's obviously different because it's mainly just for gaming.

Size and pixel pitch is relative to how far you sit and what your eyes can tolerate. I would never try and steer someone away from their preferences except in an extreme case where they are convinced using a fairly large display at close range is not a potential eye problem. You'd have to go a lot larger before that would be the case.

The main thing is knowing whether you are happy in the comparisons you've been able to make if any, which is the hard part. Many don't have the opportunity to eyeball different displays side by side or even sample then one after the other. It can be expensive and time consuming.

Displays are one of the most personal preference pieces of hardware there is, including even the gamuts they have. Although I do feel 8 bit is important for certain uses like movies and photo, ultra high gamuts are mostly going to come into use in certain applications. Not all uses are going to benefit as well from ultra high gamuts. Reproduced real life images and video have much more intricate color content than rendered game images do.

It's kinda like comparing a GI Joe to a human body, the human body is much more complex. That's why many suffice with a mere TN for gaming. It's not just due to their fast response times, you simply don't have nearly as intricate color scale and depth in games as you do real life images.

I have even read some very technical info mentioning that ultra high gamuts can result in over saturation for some uses, ending up being a waste of money. The exception is if you have a very sophisticated (and expensive) display like Tamlin's, where you can to a great degree make adjustments and profiles for each use.

To a greater extent, the same can be said for ultra high contrast ratios or DCR as it's called. Typically such features esp when found on 6 bit TN panels, are more trouble than they're worth, causing quite a loss of color accuracy. DRC presets are mainly for families that have their display in a high traffic room that doesn't have proper lighting, where the color accuracy is less noticeable than the contrast itself.

Bottom line, if you're not tech oriented like Tamlin and love to tweak your display quite a bit and hardware calibrate it and all that, you're better off with a display that has fairly adequate color accuracy out of the box and just doing a manual adjust with the built in controls and fine tune with something like Nvidia's Display Wizard. The latter helped color quality quite a bit in the Samsung 245BW I set up for a friend, even though it's just a 6 bit TN. You're on a much lower dis[play budget than Tamlin was.

There's a lot to be said for just starting out with a display that has fairly good color, and avoiding using the built in color and contrast presets and instead making manual adjustments. It isn't that hard and makes a big difference. It's even more noticeable if you have proper lighting. The Dell 27" displays are about average for out of the box color accuracy, but Dells do scale fairly well, meaning you'll have more res options than you would with some displays.

We won't know if the 2709W is good for your gaming purposes until you test it for input lag. As Tamlin has said some notice it more than others, and it's not just due to eyesight and reflexes, it has a lot to do with your playing style. If you're aggressive with shooters and have very quick reflexes and accurate aim, you're more likely to notice it.

One test you can do for input lag is to turn facing away from a wall at about a 10' distance. Then quickly jump/turn 180 degrees and try to shoot the same spot on the wall. Make sure you pick a game with great frame rates like CoD4 to do the test though. It takes pretty good hardware to run games at 1920x1200 if you max the settings. Any lag will skew the results.

Wow thankx Frag maniac and Tamlin for the information.

I also have some other questions:

* I've been told that the 2709W also have a bigger pixelpitch wich means that tekst is not that crystal clear sharp as with the 2407WFP i have now, my questions is is that treu and is it really that much of a different ?

* today i am getting my 2709W and if i don't like him concerning the above mentioned thing i can change him for the Dell UltraSharp 3008WFP
So if i do that i like to know if my 8800GTX (768mb) is powerful enough to play call of duty 5 in 2.560 x 1.600 (my other specs are: Quadcore AMD Phenom black edition 9850 2500 MHz, Asus M3A32-MVP Deluxe, Corsair Dominator 2x1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM.

Like I was saying, the 2709W will have a larger pitch because it's the same 1920x1200 resolution as a 24" on a bigger panel. Any 2560x1600 30" is going to have very close to the same pitch a 24" 1920x1200 does. The problem with 30" panels has been not as much support for 2560x1600 res in games, heavy duty hardware required to run at that res, input lag, and of course price. The worst thing to do IMO is get a crappy brand in 30", like Gateway.

I think you should consider some of the 26" panels out there. They are an actual 25.5" size, so not much larger in pitch than a 24, yet you can get them affordably in the S-IPS type. The DoubleSight DS-265W is only about $700, vs a grand or more for a 30". It matters a lot how far you plan on sitting from the display though. How many feet will you be away from it?

Some pixel pitch sizes, just for comparison:

30" @ 2560x1600 = .2524
24" @ 1920x1200 = .2692
26" (25.5 actual) @ 1920x1200 = .2861
27" @ 1920x1200 = .3029
32" (HDTV) @ 1920x1080 = .369

As you can see, the 26" @ 1920x1200 is fairly well suited in size and pitch for overall use. It comes right in between all the others. All the better that you can get one in a high grade S-IPS panel at a good price. The DS-265W uses the same panel Tamlin's has btw, it just doesn't have the polarizer filter coating on the screen and built in LUT for fine tuning colors and profiles. It does however have less input lag because the video processing on the NEC slows it down a bit. IMO the cheaper DoubleSight is actually better for gaming because of this, though it doesn't come close for pro photo work.

[quote]

I think you will get is the wider gamut and the larger lag (since I assume you are sensitive to lag). Dell have a satisfaction warranty, so you can always back out if you aren't happy and if you are, then all is well.

Interesting points, can you explane me what you mean with "the wider gamut"?

About the lag, the input lag of the 2709W is teh same as i have with the 2407WFP and as i mentioned in my post above this one it almost doesn't matter for FPS games.

I also like to know from you when you know that i have to pay 590 euro, is this a bad choice ? :)

NTSC color spectrum is a standard that dates back a long time, which specify a color range as the standard for all Tube TV back in the days. The earlier LCD usually cannot produce all the color range with the earlier ones only reproducing about ~78% of the NTSC color spectrum. Later LCDs start improving and have units with 80% to 90% range. The latest LCDs usually have 90%+ and the 2709 claims 110% which means it will reproduce a wider color spectrum than the old NTSC standard.

For a graphic explanation, take a look at the picture on the bottom of page 4 here:

http://www.nor-tech.com/solutions/dox/whitepaper_lcd_vs_plasma.pdf

I have bot ha Dell 2405 and a 2407 before getting the 2709. So far, I'm happy with mine. You need to go search around a bit and find some calibration settings and once setup. It's a noticeable difference from the 2405 and 2407. I use mine for PC gaming, PS3 gaming, DVR with Nero liquid TV w/TIVO.

Hi guy's, well i have my 2709W now and i must say that the tekst is sharp and gaming is okay.

The only thing i really can see is the oversaturated colours, is there a way to do something about it ?
Monitor calibration for example and so yes with wich program ?

Ofcourse i know that the DELL 30 inch is better in that but if i choose for that display i cannot play games because almost no game support a resolution of 2500x....

I have bot ha Dell 2405 and a 2407 before getting the 2709. So far, I'm happy with mine. You need to go search around a bit and find some calibration settings and once setup. It's a noticeable difference from the 2405 and 2407. I use mine for PC gaming, PS3 gaming, DVR with Nero liquid TV w/TIVO.

Hi, well that's the big problem, where do i find the right calibration settings without having oversaturated colours ?

I found the setting I'm using now from one fo the review page here, One of the setting should give you a good baseline to play with.

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2008/review-dell-2709w.html#Introduction

Once setup, it looks almost as good as my Sharp 46" LCD that I use for TV and Blu-rays.