Widescreen Gaming Forum

I have a feeling it's more likely that he's using an ATI vs Nvidia GPU, which don't support dual display as well if he is using two. I get the same undersized desktop image on my Samsung CRT HDTV in HDMI mode and it has nothing to do with the TV. Since I don't use my TV as a desktop and only watch DVDs/TV on it I don't worry about it, but he can easily adjust it out. It could also be that he's in 1:1 mode (see below). As for the graininess, any set with that high pixel pitch is going to look noticeably grainier than what he was used to before, esp if he's viewing it at closer than recommended distances.

Also, your Sharp is 32", his is 46" at the same res, BIG difference. There you're not comparing set quality but the fact that you need to view such a set farther away due to an obvious larger pixel pitch. To make an accurate comparison you'd need to have spent a lot of time at home with the same size sets putting each in best case scenario adjustment wise, and I'm just not buying that you did that to be saying such things.

The fact is you don't really need that auto stretch feature as you only have to set the size once and it's done. It's mainly a convenience for those whom don't know how to make such an adjustment and as I said before has nothing whatsoever to do with image quality. In fact the Toshiba may have such a feature which you don't have enabled if you've set it to 1:1 or some other mode.

Here are two images showing both screen sizing and overscan adjustments you can make using CCC p. I suggest you thoroughly read your Toshiba manual first to make sure it's not just a setting you can change on the TV though.




I've done some further searching on 32" HDTVs with 1080p. So far I've found ones by Sony (120Hz), LG, Samsung, Toshiba, and of course Sharp's had one for some time. The Sony and LG are very pricey and so far 120Hz hasn't proven to be any better in LCD TVs. Of the lot I would lean toward the Samsung, it's getting rave reviews and is priced pretty well. As I said previously Samsung likely makes the panel for the Toshiba and Sharp, and even the Sony. The only other manufacturer among those I listed that makes panels is LG, and only via their LG Philips division. I'm guessing LG Philips PLED may be the future of HDTV, though I'm not liking the direction their pricing is headed.

I have a feeling it's more likely that he's using an ATI vs Nvidia GPU, which don't support dual display as well if he is using two.

What do you mean? Would you please explain this further?
(I do plan to use a dual-mon setup)

It could also be that he's in 1:1 mode (see below)....... esp if he's viewing it at closer than recommended distances.

What is 1:1 mode? I cant find this "1:1" mode from within CCC.

Yes, I am viewing the HDTV from about 1m.

Here are two images showing both screen sizing and overscan adjustments you can make using CCC

Thanks for this suggestion. I have successfully enlarge the desktop to fill up the full panel using the "Scaling Options". One click is all it needs!

I note that the default setting of the slider is right in the middle between 'Overscan" (0%) and 'Underscan' (15%). So, I suppose CCC, by default, was previously sending a 7.5% underscan signal to my HDTV, thus causing the black border all around. Now that I have pushed the slider slightly to the right to reduce the underscan and the black border is gone.

Though the problem is solved, I am not totally satisfied. I want to understand the root cause. My theory is this:
My card is not 100% properly detecting my HDTV. Most likely, the card thinks that my LCD HDTV is a CRT HDTV. Because CRTs usually overscan, so CCC decides to send an underscan signal to compensate.
Any comment on my theory?


Take a look at these two pic.
http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/Gigabyte_HD_3870_512MB_Crossfire/HDTV-Setup.jpg and http://www.csa.dp.ua/downloads/ccc/50Hz_mode.jpg which are not exactly like mine but they serve the purpose for illustration. So, to solve the root cause, I wonder if 'add'ing the " 1080p60 standard (1920 x 1080 @60Hz) " would help my card ?

Anyone has any experience in using this 'HDTV Support' window under DTV(DVI) tab of the CCC ?

By bad dual display support I mean mostly if you have a setup that requires running your TV in extended desktop mode like me. The reason I have to use extended desktop mode to watch DVD movies is my CRT HDTV does not show text well enough to navigate through GUIs such as PowerDVD on screen. ATI still has poor Theater Mode support for extended desktop mode, which is why I use Omega drivers. The other options besides extended desktop are clone and primary display modes, either of which you should be able to use.

It was only recently that ATI even offered the Overscan adjustment I showed you, and now it happens to be necessary for me to use due to the latest ATI drivers lacking proper AGP support as well. Thus I have to use both CCC AND ATI Tray Tools (the latter of which comes with the Omega drivers) just to get DVDs to play in their true size.

It's mainly that I have not only a CRT HDTV, but a 4:3 monitor, so I'm not only having to use extended desktop mode, I have two drastically different aspect ratios between my displays. Obviously your problem is not that you're using two displays after hearing you say you've only one for now. I wouldn't worry too much about it as the dual support has gotten much better esp if you use Pci Ex, have a panel HDTV, and plan your second display to be same or close in aspect ratio.

1:1 means the display shows the exact number of pixels and aspect ratio as the source material you're playing. It is a mode of the display, NOT the video card settings. In other words a letterbox movie (roughly 2.4:1 aspect ratio) will show on a 16:9 TV with black bars top and bottom vs full screen. This also means the original image won't be distorted proportionally.

Yes do enable 720p standard (1280x720) resolution. It's essential for watching DVDs. Also enable 1080p for Blu-ray movies. You will need to select the appropriate res mode in your video panel before launching the movie.

I actually set my res mode via the simple method of right clicking on the desktop to bring up the display properties. It's quicker and easier than navigating through more clicks to get to the video card panel.


Yes the ATI cards do take a bit more fiddling. They don't auto detect as well as Nvidia cards as you mentioned, but you can get around it and should only have to do it once as I said before. You are also helping to validate what I said about this being an issue with GPU support, not the TV itself.

Never used this one but I have used Sony Bravia LCD tv for my XBOX gaming .. it reallyyy irresistable.. wonder to play in it..
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By bad dual display support I mean mostly if you have a setup that requires running your TV in extended desktop mode like me. The reason I have to use extended desktop mode to watch DVD movies is my CRT HDTV does not show text well enough to navigate through GUIs such as PowerDVD on screen. ATI still has poor Theater Mode support for extended desktop mode, which is why I use Omega drivers. The other options besides extended desktop are clone and primary display modes, either of which you should be able to use.

It was only recently that ATI even offered the Overscan adjustment I showed you, and now it happens to be necessary for me to use due to the latest ATI drivers lacking proper AGP support as well. Thus I have to use both CCC AND ATI Tray Tools (the latter of which comes with the Omega drivers) just to get DVDs to play in their true size.

It's mainly that I have not only a CRT HDTV, but a 4:3 monitor, so I'm not only having to use extended desktop mode, I have two drastically different aspect ratios between my displays. Obviously your problem is not that you're using two displays after hearing you say you've only one for now. I wouldn't worry too much about it as the dual support has gotten much better esp if you use Pci Ex, have a panel HDTV, and plan your second display to be same or close in aspect ratio.

Thanks for your detail feedback. I like to ask a few more questions:

1) I have not used ATI Tray Tools before. Would you explain briefly what it does that CCC doesnt? Especially in the area of manipulating resolution and refresh rate.

2) My current primary display is a 46" 1920 x 1080 16:9 LCD HDTV while the secondary display is a 15" 800 x 600 4:3 LCD monitor. Size, resolution and aspect ratio are quite different. During the course of getting them to work simultaneously, I learn that I cannot use "Clone Mode" in CCC as it requires both display to have the same resolution (!). So, I am using the "Extended Desktop Mode" to get them both working together now.

Do you foresee any trouble when I use a DTH2G to connect 3 such HDTVs to form my primary display while still keeping my secondary display? The size , resolution and aspect ratio will be even further apart between them.

(PS: I have started a new thread under "Surround Discussion & Solutions" to deal with this particular setup of 3 LCD HDTVs with DTH2G.
Anyone who has used and is using this type of setup is encouraged to go there and share your experience. Thanks.)

Would you explain briefly what it does that CCC doesnt? Especially in the area of manipulating resolution and refresh rate.

My current primary display is a 46" 1920 x 1080 16:9 LCD HDTV while the secondary display is a 15" 800 x 600 4:3 LCD monitor. Size, resolution and aspect ratio are quite different. During the course of getting them to work simultaneously, I learn that I cannot use "Clone Mode" in CCC as it requires both display to have the same resolution (!). So, I am using the "Extended Desktop Mode" to get them both working together now.

ATI Tray Tools is used by some to set GPU fan speeds and such. I's really no different for setting res and refresh though. The main reason I use it is to set Theater Mode parameters while in Extended Desktop mode, which may be handy for you too, but I doubt you really need to use ED mode.

Since you have a digital flat panel LCD TV that should show text pretty well, you could probably use Primary Display mode instead of Extended Desktop mode. In this mode once you set it it automatically turns off your other display and uses the TV as the primary one when you enable it, from which you can then navigate onscreen.

In the long run that would be easier for movie watching and stuff. What I have to do after I go into ED mode is switch off my monitor manually after starting the movie or both displays stay on the whole time. I have my monitor screensaver set to blank (black screen), but the screensaver does not engage while in ED mode. You also lose the ability to control the movie onscreen in ED mode or even highlight the timebar to see how much time is left.

My advice to you is to avoid ED mode if possible, like I said I only use it because I have two CRT displays and the TV does not show text well enough to navigate with. The other reason to avoid it other than what I mentioned above is ED mode with older ATI cards works best with Omega drivers. I don't mind using them but they aren't updated as often as the stock ones from ATI. For me it makes no difference because I have an older video card that isn't part of the driver changelogs anymore.

This is the Theater Mode panel in ATI Tray Tools I was referring to.

Once in a while when I launch a movie it will display on my monitor but not my TV. It's because for some odd reason the settings in this panel revert to their default settings rather than the 16:9 WS settings shown in the pic. I then have to manually reset them then the movie launches on both displays. Welcome to the wonderful world of poor ATI dual display support (at least with their older GPUs anyway). :roll:

You shouldn't have to worry about poor dual display support with a 3000 series, from what I've read it's much better for 3000 and beyond cards. On the other hand I don't think you really need to use ED mode anyway. You should only run into the problem you were experiencing when trying to display two drastically different aspect ratios simultaneously, like in clone mode. If not ED mode may very well work better for you than it does for me.

Like I said, try using Primary Display mode instead. :wink: