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24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
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Author:  krille [ 27 Aug 2008, 20:31 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
Note: I know there are other similar threads, but the most recent ones of those have been on much tighter budgets and thus I think a new one is justified.


It's time for a new computer and what better time is there to upgrade the screen as well? Since I don't have a TV nor any console at this point, my computer is used for everything and thus 1920x1200 resolution is a must (in order to enjoy full HD 1080p content). There will be lots of gaming going on too (including FPS!). I'm not into photography, video editing, professional graphics or any other such things, so perfect colors is not crucial (with that said I'm not looking for a particularly bad panel either).


My current LCD... is useless! (Feel free to skip this part)
My current screen is the Viewsonic VP181s and that's what I've been using for far too many years now. According to its specs the response time is "super-fast 30ms" (riiite...). It appears almost any contemporary LCD has way tighter specs. Yet strangely I haven't experienced any real ghosting issues with it (I guess my eyes/reflexes aren't too responsive either). (The 30ms of my dad's Viewsonic VX900-2 does ghost real bad though, making especially the old 2D game SubSpace/Continuum, which features bright stars and blazing bullets against the black void of space, unbearable to play.)

Apart from the obvious 720p limitation and small size, the main problem with the VP181s is it's horrendous blacks and exaggerated bleeding. Looking for an emergency light in the middle of the night as your last light-bulb popped? Look no further! It's almost impossible to make out anything at all during dark segments of movies and games, it's really that terrible. So I'm in dire need of a replacement!


New LCD
Primary uses for the LCD will be: playing games and viewing HD material. I'm not sure about the panel size. My eyesight is hardly perfect, but I'm not half-blind either. I guess whichever size you would recommend me is fine as long as it's a good LCD that's 24" or larger while being smaller than 30". A native resolution of 1920x1200 is a must though.

I'm looking for these qualities:[list]
[*]Good blacks (dark segments should be just as enjoyable!). "Backlight bleeding" should be kept to a minimum (avoided entirely if possible as it's currently very annoying and apparent on the VP181s).[/*:m]
[*]Budget is high (for the size). I got up to $2000 USD (or 12 500 SEK, Swedish krona) incl. VAT to spend on the LCD. (It's sort of a gift.) Naturally, that doesn't mean all of it has to be spent. As long as spending the extra cash makes sense, it's not a problem. However, keep in mind that I'm not into photography, graphical design or anything like that so I don't need the most expensive professional perfect color screen you can find.[/*:m]
[*]No input lag! If at all possible, as there will be a lot of gaming including first-person shooters.[/*:m]
[*]Good response time, again for games.[/*:m]
[*]Acceptable viewing angles.[/*:m]
[*]When playing non-widescreen games (such as WarCraft 3, older games and 2D games) the screen should not stretch ("Fill") the picture. Optimally aspect ratio scaling ("4:3") should be used. 1:1 ("centered mode"/"pixel mapping") would be nice to have, but it's not a must as long as it's got aspect ratio scaling.[/*:m]
[*]Pivot functionality could be nice when programming, browsing, writing documents and other desktop work, etc. I haven't really used it on my current 5:4 LCD, but I guess it's more useful on a 16:10 screen.[/*:m]
[*]I'd really like for it to be silent! That's maybe most important of all. My current VP181s suffers from a faint, yet incredibly annoying high-pitched screeching. (It's hard to describe, it's perceived more as if I it's actually inside my head rather than coming from in front of me as is usually the case and it persists for as long as the LCD is plugged in. It's most likely originating from the internal PSU as turning the monitor off hasn't got any noticeable effect, only by manually detaching the power cord the "noise" disappears. I fear it's a major cause of headaches.)[/*:m][/list:u]

Regarding panel types, since I'm not a competitive FPS gamer and I will be watching a lot of movies (and other video such as TV series) on the LCD, I guess TN isn't the way to go. I imagine a fast xIPS or xVA panel may be the way to go. I'm not sure though.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Author:  DaFox [ 28 Aug 2008, 00:30 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
Note: I dont have time to read the whole thread but basically the best monitor that you can get without breaking the bank is:

http://www.doublesight.com/product/?idx=26 (coming out soon)
and
http://www.doublesight.com/product/?idx=7
Author:  Frag Maniac [ 28 Aug 2008, 01:39 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
Just did a bit of checking on the DS-265W. The main difference between it and the DS-263N seems to be that the new one has height and pivot adjust stand (landscape/portrait views), slightly higher standard contrast ratio at 1000:1 vs 800:1, along with Dynamic Contrast Ratio preset offering 3000:1, component inputs, audio input, and built in speaker. I'm not a big fan of DCR presets, as they considerably lower color accuracy, but you don't have to use it. It's just a gimmicky feature lots of consumers want.

The bad news is after calling the Irvine, Ca. US office the guy I spoke to, whom appeared to be a tech the sales rep handed me to, said it won't have the polarizer like the NEC has. It sounded like they were flooded with questions about that so they checked with NEC and apparently the ATW filter they use is a proprietary NEC licensed feature that only NEC uses. If there were in fact any ATW filtered 263N displays that slipped through it appears it was purely by accident.

None the less I still think this display is the best value on the market in a high quality monitor and I've already seen very reasonable pricing on it. http://www.provantage.com/doublesight-ds-265w~7DBLE00K.htm
Author:  krille [ 28 Aug 2008, 06:56 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
Sorry for the long OP, I guess these are the most important parts:

1. The LCD should be 24" to 30" with 1920x1200 native resolution.
2. Mainly for gaming and HD movie playback (apart from desktop work).
3. It should be responsive (no input lag if possible), because of FPS games.
4. There won't be any photo editing, professional graphics or such things.
5. The budget is high, 12 500 SEK (Swedish krona, equivalent to about $2000). Any LCD within this budget is fine as long as it's worth the price.

Oh, and I live in Sweden and unfortunately I can't seem to find this "DoubleSight" brand here. You mentioned NEC though which is readily available though. As are brands such as: BenQ, Eizo, Fujitsu Siemens, HP, LG, Samsung (there's probably more but these I know).
Author:  Frag Maniac [ 28 Aug 2008, 08:25 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
If it weren't for your insisting on extremely low input lag, I would recommend a NEC LCD2690WUXi. Eizo displays are very good, though I'm not sure how they fare input lag wise.
Author:  krille [ 28 Aug 2008, 13:52 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
(I revised the entire post.)

I'm not sure how important input lag really is, but I do game a lot. I've heard lots of people complain about the input lag of the NEC (when gaming, especially for FPS) so with this big an investment I'd rather not risk it as I'm going to be stuck with it for many years (unless something significantly better comes around, like SED screens - oh, why couldn't SED displays have hit by now?).

While the A-TW filter of the NEC looks very nice (A-TW on the left), I'm probably going to spend most of my time looking at the monitor head-on anyway and as such I'm not sure the increased latency of the NEC is worth it. If only the NEC had been as fast!

Since the LCD2690WUXI is almost $1600 USD in Sweden, I might as well order a DoubleSight DS-265W, DS-263N or a Planar PX2611W internationally (are these available at all within the EU? or would it have to be from overseas?). The DS-263N seems to be out of production, so it's probably going to be hard if not impossible to find one.

However it appears ProVantage ships both the PX2611W and the DS-265W internationally:
PX2611W at ProVantage
DS-265W at ProVantage

So, I guess, it all boils down to Planar PX2611W vs DoubleSight DS-265W. The DS-265W is newer, but is it better? If there are any other screens to consider as well, please, let me know.

Or I could just get a cheap TN screen for best latency/response. The BenQ G2400WD seems like a very popular choice. How does it differ from the G2400W and G2400WT? Would this be the best TN alternative? Or is the quality of a fast H-IPS (like the PX2611W) worth a slightly higher lag (~16ms vs ~1-3ms)?


Eizo doesn't look too good for gaming btw.
Author:  xocomaox [ 28 Aug 2008, 15:42 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
Trust me, you will want low low input lag on whatever monitor you buy. This will be your most important requirement.
Author:  krille [ 28 Aug 2008, 15:47 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
Trust me, you will want low low input lag on whatever monitor you buy. This will be your most important requirement.


In that case, would you suggest a TN panel (maybe the BenQ G2400WD?) or would the approximate 1 frame / 16ms delay of the H-IPS panel Planar PX2611W be fast enough?
Author:  Frag Maniac [ 29 Aug 2008, 05:11 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
Like I said above, the main difference between the DS-265W and the DS-263N seems to be that the new one has height and pivot adjust stand (landscape/portrait views), slightly higher standard contrast ratio at 1000:1 vs 800:1, along with Dynamic Contrast Ratio preset offering 3000:1, component inputs, audio input, and built in speaker.

The DS-263N, DS-265W and Planar PX2611W all have the same amount of input lag, less than one frame, which is very good for gaming. The DS-263N and Planar PX2611W are nearly identical, except the Planar stand is adjustable. The new DS-265W addresses that beyond what the Planar offers and adds even more features, yet still comes in at a very reasonable price.

At $130 (USD) to ship the DS-265W to Sweden, I'd say the DS-265W from Provantage is a pretty good option. However as is the case with any new product release, especially one that's a major investment, I would wait and see (eg: read reviews) how these new ones fare before ordering one from out of country. You never know, they could end up having a bad first batch run and you don't want to get stuck in the middle of something like that after having ordered it from half way around the globe.
Author:  krille [ 29 Aug 2008, 15:14 ]
Post subject:  24" to 27"-ish LCD for Gaming and HD?
If the DS-265W is both cheaper and better, then I guess that's my screen. You're quite right though that waiting and seeing how the first batch is receipted before jumping on the wagon. However, there is not much time as we currently have a monitor deficit: My mom just got a computer and the idea is that as soon as I get my new monitor, my old (current) one will be passed along to her. So as things stand we have three computers but only two monitors. My mother is not too happy.
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