Widescreen Gaming Forum

Something on your mind DaFox?

Please, tar everyone with the same brush. Make the same sort of sweeping generalisations that CliffyB did and that have gotten the response in this thread (and if other fora are an indication, similar responses across the web...)

I said "don't pirate or don't complain." I'm pretty sure every human being on earth is capable of refraining from at least one of these things. Is that such a bad "brush" to tar everyone with?

But by your logic above, you're a pirate too.

Not quite. By my logic, I'm *capable* of piracy. Which I am. I never said anything that would indicate I am a pirate. Neither did CliffyB.

So you've just fallen victim yourself of the patent pending 'CliffyB shotgun effect', when you're actually defending him.

You're putting words into my mouth and making false assumptions based on them, just like many gaming board members have done to CliffyB.

The Alienware-buying public buy Alienware because they don't have high technical knowledge. So under the 'technical knowledge' argument, they don't know enough to torrent.

Unfortunately, by and large they do know enough to torrent.

But his argument is basically money = technical knowledge. If only it were that easy.

It's even simpler than that. It's possession of high-end gaming equipment = knowledge of torrenting.

On average those are the type of people whom would buy games at least once a month, rather than every now and then.

If they can afford a game once a month, they can afford a game every now and then. And my whole point was that they can afford games now and then. How am I "forgetting" anything? How is my analogy invalid in any way whatsoever?

Everyone knows tons of kids still living at home put everything they can afford into a gaming rig, then spend their allowance and any other money they get on games

You're half right. There are tons of kids living at home who spend lots on gaming rigs, but most of them torrent games given the opportunity.

You don't go saying they are the ones whom know about torrenting in the same interview you claim torrenting is ruining PC gaming without heavily implying high end PC gamers are all pirates.

You're talking in circles. I have contested this exact point several times - rephrasing a contested point doesn't count as backing it up. As I said, the implication is nothing more than that *many* high-end PC gamers are pirates.

But strung together with poor logic (many savvy users know nothing of torrents, and many torrenting pirates are otherwise computer cavemen)

Savvy users who know nothing of torrents are a rarity. And the existence of computer cavemen who can torrent is completely peripheral to his point.

poorly-worded delivery (how does one jump directly from discussing integrated video chips to piracy?) creates ambiguity, and ambiguity is where implication lives.

So are you saying that if he didn't mention "integrated video chips," there would be no awkward jump, and therefore no ambiguity, and therefore no implication?

Savvy users who know nothing of torrents are a rarity. And the existence of computer cavemen who can torrent is completely peripheral to his point.

My point was to show that Cliff's correlation between savvy users and torrenting knowledge is not as simple as it sounds.

So are you saying that if he didn't mention "integrated video chips," there would be no awkward jump, and therefore no ambiguity, and therefore no implication?

Not at all, that was just a sample. My assessment of ambiguity applied to his entire statement and focused on the savvy/torrent/pirate/highendsales section, as I explained before.

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VirtualDub Game Recording Guide | BFME2 & RotWK Widescreen/Triplehead Mods

Something on your mind DaFox?

I think I was going to say something, Then forgot what I was going to say and accidentally pressed submit.

My point was to show that Cliff's correlation between savvy users and torrenting knowledge is not as simple as it sounds.

But it is as simple as it sounds. One of your counterpoints was insignificant, and the other was irrelevant. Correlation does not imply inverse-correlation, so you're not making a point by disproving the inverse-correlation of what he said.

My assessment of ambiguity applied to his entire statement and focused on the savvy/torrent/pirate/highendsales section, as I explained before.

What ambiguity that you explained? All I recall you "explaining" about ambiguity is that it comes from poor wording, and your example of poor wording was nothing more than the awkward jump from integrated graphics to piracy.

If they can afford a game once a month, they can afford a game every now and then. And my whole point was that they can afford games now and then. How am I "forgetting" anything? How is my analogy invalid in any way whatsoever?

You're forgetting that the argument was based on how easily they could afford their games, since that's what you were implying. Having a $300 video card does not automatically mean you can easily afford the games.

I mentioned once a month because it's a more accurate representation than a few games a year, esp for someone with a dedicated gaming rig. What I'm saying is dedicated gamers even if they don't have a lot to spend will still spend their last dime on games. You may not be in that kind of financial situation and not know it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true.

You're half right. There are tons of kids living at home who spend lots on gaming rigs, but most of them torrent games given the opportunity.

OMG, no wonder you seem to unconditionally support Cliffy, you sound like his yes man press agent. Now it's not only anyone with a high end gaming rig, any kids with dedicated gaming rigs living at home with their parents are automatically pirates too. I'm guessing you aren't too popular at LAN parties spewing garbage like that, if you DO get out that is. :roll:

Having a $300 video card does not automatically mean you can easily afford the games.

As someone on the other side, This is very correct. I saved up for 5 years for this PC, Sure I could have bought 20 games. But I could not play any of them without a decent PC. Granted now days you can get a good PC for way less ($600 for the cheapest decent PC with a core 2 duo and 4850 opposed to a year ago $1000 for a core 2 duo and a 8800GTS320) Nearly every dollar I make now goes towards bills. I wont even be able to afford a new PC until I'm done college at the rate that I'm going.

So basically its games and no PC or PC and piracy.

I know crankys reply to this is going to be something along the lines of:

A: Get a second job
B: You don't need a PC or games
C: Play games on a shittier PC (like cranky does)

Might I add that Option B and C would actually be worse for game developers. As I do set up games to buy about twice a year.

Left 4 Dead being my next game.

Correlation does not imply inverse-correlation, so you're not making a point by disproving the inverse-correlation of what he said.

This has become entirely overcomplicated. Cliff made a generalization. Generalizations are frequently ambiguous. I see ambiguity in his statement. You do not.

What ambiguity that you explained? All I recall you "explaining" about ambiguity is that it comes from poor wording, and your example of poor wording was nothing more than the awkward jump from integrated graphics to piracy.

You don't see what I have attempted to explain. How would it help to create new explanations?

I think the bottom line is that we simply perceive Cliff's statement in different ways. We've already discussed this at length and I've been unable to help you understand the reasons behind my opinion. Is there a point to continuing?

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VirtualDub Game Recording Guide | BFME2 & RotWK Widescreen/Triplehead Mods

I see my attempts to get away from the piracy subject have failed and we're once again going round in circles. To bad because this thread getting locked is now really close. :(

I see my attempts to get away from the piracy subject have failed and we're once again going round in circles. To bad because this thread getting locked is now really close. :(

I really don't see the point of censoring talk about DRM and Piracy in a DRM thread.